Paddy Power 'From the Horse's Mouth' Podcast featuring Ruby Walsh and Patrick Mullins

Host Patrick Kennelly (PK) together with former champion jockey-turned top TV pundit Ruby Walsh, amateur jockey and assistant trainer to his father Willie, Patrick Mullins, and Paddy Power trader and formbook guru Frank Hickey have come together on Paddy Power Media’s ‘From The Horse’s Mouth’ Podcast with a National Hunt Season Preview.

This informative show covers every angle of the new campaign including the rule changes to the programme at the Cheltenham Festival and the movement of the day of the Mares’ Hurdle (both covered below), a discussion about Willie Mullins’ amazing Breeders’ Cup success and whether Willie will give it a go at winning the National Hunt trainers’ title in the UK again.

The show, recorded on Monday, can be found and viewed on the Paddy Power Racing YouTube channel.

Hurdling debutants can’t now run in Grade 1s. As we know Poniros won the Triumph, what did you make of that?

Patrick Mullins: As Harry Potter fans know, some people just prefer a world without magic! To me it was a fantastic result, it was an incredible training performance, to me going into it next year, people would take a horse like him seriously.

So he would enter the calculations in a way he didn’t enter it this year. Look is it going to majorly affect us, probably not, but you wonder now would Breeders’ Cup say ‘you can’t run in the turf if you ran in a hurdle race maybe’.

Ruby Walsh: The bit that I took out of it that I think if they really want to enact on the way they’re going was they said that it was hard for the public to engage with the race with horses like Poniros running in the race because they couldn’t judge them.

Therefore they couldn’t figure out exactly what they were? That was part of their statement so I think when you look at hurdlers running off their hurdle marks in novice handicap chases, how do any of us know if they’re going to jump?

The handicapper’s going to give them a mark and let them run there. But how are you supposed to engage with that if you don’t actually know if they can jump a fence?

And then you look at British Champions Day, a horse like Richard Fahey’s that won the Sprint and Cicero’s Gift. I looked at them when I came home and I still wouldn’t have backed them after the race.

When I look back at Poniros, he was rated higher than East India Dock was on the Flat. You could actually engage with Poniros if you looked at it. I didn’t, I didn’t back him, but when I looked at the two that won on British Champions Day, if you had five goes, 10 goes, you wouldn’t have beacked them.

So what is making the public engage with the race? I don’t know, I think the BHA are speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

The Mares’ Hurdle has moved from the Tuesday of Cheltenham – what do you make of that change?

Ruby Walsh: Again, change for the sake of change. [New Course – different race?] So what will it be, it’ll ride probably a little bit further distance-wise. Does it change the race? I don’t think it will change it that much at all.

It will put less of an emphasis on jumping because on the New Course with the two hurdles spread out over such a distance, in the last seven furlongs of the race, it will put less of an emphasis on actually jumping in the contest.

Look, I think you should never be afraid of change, but change should always be proactive and for the better. I think this is reactive and doesn’t change anything – it’s change for the sake of change.

Two-mile chasers, Closutton’s main hope?

Patrick Mullins: I think Energumene will probably go up in trip, he’s 11 going on 12, Il Etait Temps hasn’t shown his best form at Cheltenham and when he ran in the Arkle, I think he made two bold-ish mistakes at the ditches, interestingly enough, and there has to be a question mark about him on the track, but not about his ability.

A bit like Jonbon, maybe it’s not, but the ability is certainly there and we’re going to try and get him out in Clonmel and then try and get him out for the Tingle Creek.

And Majborough – he has so little experience, but his jumping is a question mark, it is a niggle and as you’ve seen in the Champion Chases the last couple of years, that’s not a great niggle to have.

Gaelic Warrior – does his ‘hatred’ of Leopardstown mean the King George has to be his target?

Patrick Mullins: Yeah, look I think last year he was running over two miles on a dry track and he just wasn’t quick enough for it. When he won the Arkle, it was very heavy ground. Over a three mile chase around Leopardstown, could he be better? Yes.

But it’s there in black and white that his form doesn’t appear to be as good there so right-handed over the Kempton three miles, it would look right up his sleeve. He’d want to travel maybe a little bit better than he did in Aintree.

But you know, I think he’d be a fascinating contender in it.

Could Fact To File and Gaelic Warrior end up clashing in the King George?

Patrick Mullins: Again, I suppose if you have a fast two-and-a-half miler, he does stay three miles Fact To File, but he’s just maybe not as good at it in Leopardstown.

But maybe at Kempton with so much more jumping and a flatter track, he might get it, but it looks like you still need to fairly stay there, do you? He might settle better going at a faster pace.

Galopin Des Champs has picked up a knock, is it a major concern?

Patrick Mullins: No it’s not a major concern, he missed about 10 days with a foot problem and he normally needs the run in the John Durkan anyway. So it’ll be 10 days further back – is there anything to be gained by going there?

He could still make it, he’s back on the gallop, but Willie is toying with the idea, he’s a year older, do you campaign him a little bit less? Do you just start the season a bit later to finish out the season?

Our early-season races aren’t as high in the priority as late-season races in Closutton. We’re not concerned about it for later in the season.

A Christmas debut is possible – we’ve done that before. We’ll go back to the Gold Cup, he’s nine going 10, I think the last 10-year-old winner was in the nineties was it, Cool Dawn was it? [Yes 1998] so it can be done, but it’s hard to do and he’s probably coming out of his prime nine going 10. But if you watch his Christmas run last year, his Punchestown run last year, you wouldn’t say he couldn’t win a Gold Cup again.

Romeo Coolio didn’t have to jump too many fences on debut at Down Royal?

Ruby Walsh: It’s always very easy when you’re sitting on the couch. But he still had to figure out three fences that aren’t even in a line.

Look, he won well in what was a novice chase minus six fences. He’s a very good horse, I liked him last year, I thought he was a very good novice hurdler and a big imposing individual.

Is Kopek Des Bordes the one you’re most looking forward to going over fences from Closutton?

Ruby Walsh: Final Demand for me – he was the one who stood out to me, anyway. You’d imagine he would be further than two miles, but I just thought he was really impressive.

Kopek definitely needs to jump a fence better than he jumped a hurdle, in my eyes anyway.

Kawaboomga?

Ruby Walsh: He’s in pre-training, but he’s not back in Closutton and I don’t know when he’s due back.

The chaser who wins the most amount of cash between now and a minute before the Grand National – open or novice?

Ruby Walsh: What can win three Grade 1s? Jonbon. He’ll have won the Tingle Creek, he’ll have won the Victor Chandler, will he have won a third one, Shloer as well?

Patrick Mullins: Gaelic Warrior.

How has State Man summered?

Patrick Mullins: He’s summered really well – it was heartbreaking what he did at the last [in the Champion Hurdle]. If you had one horse you’d bet your last dollar on that he wouldn’t do it, but that can happen at Cheltenham.

He came back and put the record straight in Punchestown, but it was a funny year for him. Obviously he bombed out at Christmas, we didn’t know what to make of the DRF result and then obviously fell at Cheltenham.

For a horse that was so Rolex-like, never missed a beat, he was all over the place last year. But to me, he still sets the standard and I know he weirdly has a point to prove still coming into this season, but he’s definitely number one in our yard.

Is Anzadam Fighting Fifth Hurdle bound?

Patrick Mullins: Possibly, I’m not mad about our horses first time out in England. Especially early in the season. Everyone knows our horses aren’t brought along as quickly as other people’s horses so I think it would be a big ask from him.

He might go there, but I wouldn’t maybe judge him on it completely if he does.

Lossiemouth – what does she have to do to run in a Champion Hurdle?

Patrick Mullins: Last year she had two chances to take on the big boys, she got beat by Constitution Hill and then she fell taking on State Man.

And I think her Aintree Hurdle performance probably wasn’t good enough for a Champion Hurdle either. But the thing is, she’s a good bit younger and State Man is going out of his prime and Lossiemouth possibly coming into her prime.

Basically, in Closutton there wasn’t anyone who thought Lossiemouth would beat State Man last year. Paul [Townend] was adamant that he was going to ride State Man – no-one at home was surprised, but, like I said, everything’s moving.

State Man is getting older and Lossiemouth is a few years younger so maybe then she’ll step up this year.

Ballyburn... does he strike you as a Paddy Power Stayers’ Hurdle horse?

Ruby Walsh: No – I still think I wouldn’t give up on him over fences either. He can be a fraction careful, but I’d have thought let him find his feet, I think he’d improve and I think being let gallop will let him settle down as well.

Maybe he’ll go Hatton’s Grace, end up maybe at the Aintree Hurdle. I’d say he’s at a bit of a crossroads and probably best watched for a while to tell you the truth.

One hurdler to follow

Ruby Walsh: I’m putting State Man in.

Patrick Mullins: I think Green Splendour should be followed for later in the season, I think he probably might struggle in the softer ground through the winter, but he was very, very good in Aintree and I wouldn’t mind keeping an eye on him when he goes back to Aintree next year.

I think probably he’s going to go up in trip, maybe two and a half.

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